Hi Matt, We call our CNC Application KMotionCNC. It is about the same difficulty to set up as Mach3. Both require you to get all the motors working using our KMotion.exe Configuration Program first. When first getting everything working in KMotion.exe everything is performed in units of encoder counts (or motor steps). The Application you ultimately use (either Mach3 or KMotionCNC) will do the Unit Conversions. Mach3 has a "Motor Tuning" Screen. KMotionCNC has a "Tool Setup | Trajectory Planner" Screen.
Start with KMotion.exe and set the Configuration on the Config/Flash screen. You can load the example
configuration for Step/Dir Drives called SimpleStepDirAxis0.mot. That example sets up the Axis to use Step/Dir generator #0 (because OutputChan0 setting is 0). Step/Dir Generator 0 is connected to JP7 pins 17 and 16 as described here:
http://www.dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/ConnectorsKFLOP.htm
However your breakout board is probably better suited for LVTTL signals. Step/Dir Generator #0 can be changed to this mode by adding 8 to the channel number.
So change the OutputChan0 setting to 8. This is described here:
http://www.dynomotion.com/Help/StepAndDirection/StepAndDir.htm
Use the Step Response Screen to see if you can move your motors and to determine what the Maximum Velocity, Acceleration, And Jerk is possible for your system. Ignore the PID and Tuning settings as
your Servo is in your drives not KFLOP.
HTH Regards TK
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7611 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/6/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
> Start with KMotion.exe and set the Configuration on the Config/Flash screen. You can load the example configuration for Step/Dir Drives called SimpleStepDirAxis0.mot. That example sets up the Axis to use Step/Dir generator #0 (because OutputChan0 setting is 0). Step/Dir Generator 0 is connected to JP7 pins 17 and 16 as described here:
>
so I need to load each of these....
SimpleStepDirAxis0.mot
SimpleStepDirAxis1.mot
SimpleStepDirAxis2.mot
to get all my 3 axis up and running?
and if so how do I complete the loading?
so these are my output pins for the 3 axis.....
15 IO8 Gen Purpose LVTTL I/O (5V Tolerant) or Axis 0 Home (or Step 0 output)
16 IO9 Gen Purpose LVTTL I/O (5V Tolerant) or Axis 1 Home (or Dir 0 output)
17 IO10 Gen Purpose LVTTL I/O (5V Tolerant) or Axis 2 Home (or Step 1 output)
18 IO11 Gen Purpose LVTTL I/O (5V Tolerant) or Axis 3 Home (or Dir 1 output)
19 IO12 Gen Purpose LVTTL I/O (5V Tolerant) or Axis 0 + Limit (or Step 2 output)
20 IO13 Gen Purpose LVTTL I/O (5V Tolerant) or Axis 0 - Limit (or Dir 2 output)
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7612 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 6/6/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
Hi Matt,
Let's start with one motor.
#1 wire to JP7 pins 15 (Step) and 16 (Dir) and 26 (GND)
#2 Select Axis Channel 0
#3 Select "Load Channel" and load SimpleStepDirAxis0.mot
#4 change OutputChan0 to 8 (switches Step/Dir Generator to source/sink the output as a LVTTL like your breakout board expects)
#5 on the Step Reponse Screen push "Move"
Does your motor move?
Regards TK
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7614 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/6/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> Let's start with one motor.
>
>
> #1 wire to JP7 pins 15 (Step) and 16 (Dir) and 26 (GND)
>
>
> #2 Select Axis Channel 0
>
>
> #3 Select "Load Channel" and load SimpleStepDirAxis0.mot
>
>
> #4 change OutputChan0 to 8 (switches Step/Dir Generator to source/sink the output as a LVTTL like your breakout board expects)
>
> #5 on the Step Reponse Screen push "Move"
>
>
hooked up the gecko straight to the pins through a basic pin break out board.
the kmotion comes up with an error saying "read failed - auto disconnect" right when the connect the drive to the bob.
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7615 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 6/6/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
Hi Matt,
You shouldn't connect things up with power on.
First disconnect everything from KFLOP and verify KFLOP still communicates.
Then Power down and connect the 3 wires.
Then Power up and check if KFLOP communicates.
Maybe you should list exactly what you connected where so we can double check it for you.
Regards TK
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7616 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/6/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> You shouldn't connect things up with power on.
>
> First disconnect everything from KFLOP and verify KFLOP still communicates.
>
> Then Power down and connect the 3 wires.
>
> Then Power up and check if KFLOP communicates.
>
> Maybe you should list exactly what you connected where so we can double check it for you.
>
ok, I will not connect anything together with anything live.
with nothing hooked up kflop is 100% good.
once the 3 and only wires are hooked up and I turn it on I get the "read failed - auto disconnect"
nothing but the gecko 320x is hooked up to the kflop.
step to pin 15
direction to pin 16
common to pin 26
that's it.
I cant thank you enough for your help on this.
I got mach about mastered and have used it for about 4 years almost every day. this kmotion is got my relearning all together.
matt
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7617 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 6/6/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
Hi Matt,
I'm not sure. Maybe you are connecting to the wrong pins? Do you know how they are numbered. See:
http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/JP7Photo.JPG
Maybe post a picture of your setup and wiring.
Also strange I wouldn't expect it to Disconnect on power up as it was never connected.
How are you powering KFLOP? USB power?
Regards TK
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7618 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/6/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
OMG! the stupid ribbon cable i am using does not share the same pins
http://cnc4pc.com/images/A16pinout.jpg
now with the right secret squarel code i can hook it up and the machine moves when commanded to!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
so now moving forward
i think i get that all 3 axis are set in the config screen.
how do i flash the axis info to the kflop?
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7619 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/6/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
what am i tuning for in the step response tab when the geckos are closed loop?
once the axis are set and good what more is needed to run the mill?
i can learn the inputs over time if i can just use the screen for the controls.
does the kflop have a 0-10v for the vfd input? i noticed there is a 12v output but i dont know if it can be used.
thanks
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7620 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 6/6/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
Hi Matt,
Great. Hopefully there is no damage.
There isn't any need to flash parameters. Please do not do this. After you determine all
your settings for all your axes the settings can be placed into a C Program so everything can be initialized and setup by just running the C Initialization Program. The C Program is configured to be called from the Mach3 RESET button. There are some buttons on the Config Screen that can be used to create the C code automatically from your screen settings.
Regards TK
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7621 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 6/6/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
Hi Matt,
Correct. You are not tuning the servo feedback. All you are finding is what max speed, max acceleration, and max Jerk work well for your system.
BTW if you were to connect the encoders back to KFLOP you could plot the actual motion as well as the commanded motion. But as you stand now all you can plot is the commanded motion.
KFLOP itself does not have a 0-10V output. The 12V can't be used fro that (it is just a pass through of a 12V power supply). But Kanalog adds 8 of them. There are also 3rd party boards that can convert a KFLOP PWM or Step/Dir signal to a 0-10V signal. Or possibly your VFD can accept a Step/Dir signal?
Regards TK
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7622 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/6/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
is there a "how to" on this making a c code program?
--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> Great.  Hopefully there is no damage.
>
> There isn't any need to flash parameters. Please do not do this. After you determine all your settings for all your axes the settings can be placed into a C Program so everything can be initialized and setup by just running the C Initialization Program. The C Program is configured to be called from the Mach3 RESET button. There are some buttons on the Config Screen that can be used to create the C code automatically from your screen settings.
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: yeamans115 <yeamans115@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 4:09 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion
>
>
>
> Â
> OMG! the stupid ribbon cable i am using does not share the same pins
>
> http://cnc4pc.com/images/A16pinout.jpg
>
> now with the right secret squarel code i can hook it up and the machine moves when commanded to!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
>
> so now moving forward
>
> i think i get that all 3 axis are set in the config screen.
> how do i flash the axis info to the kflop?
>
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7623 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/6/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
how can i add in my kanalog board i have now?
i lost the jp7 slot to the step/dir outputs.
is this where i swap the jp7 for the jp5 slot for the step/dir outputs so the jp7 goes to the kanalog?
or does the jp5 run the 10v vfd feed through the kanalog?
no step/dir for vfd input.
thanks matt
--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> Correct. You are not tuning the servo feedback. All you are finding is what max speed, max acceleration, and max Jerk work well for your system.
>
> BTW if you were to connect the encoders back to KFLOP you could plot the actual motion as well as the commanded motion. But as you stand now all you can plot is the commanded motion.
>
> KFLOP itself does not have a 0-10V output. The 12V can't be used fro that (it is just a pass through of a 12V power supply). But Kanalog adds 8 of them. There are also 3rd party boards that can convert a KFLOP PWM or Step/Dir signal to a 0-10V signal. Or possibly your VFD can accept a Step/Dir signal?
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: yeamans115 <yeamans115@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 4:20 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion
>
>
>
> Â
>
> what am i tuning for in the step response tab when the geckos are closed loop?
>
> once the axis are set and good what more is needed to run the mill?
>
> i can learn the inputs over time if i can just use the screen for the controls.
>
> does the kflop have a 0-10v for the vfd input? i noticed there is a 12v output but i dont know if it can be used.
>
> thanks
>
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7626 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 6/7/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
Hi Matt,
The basic process is described here:
http://www.dynomotion.com/Help/Mach3Plugin/Mach3.htm
See step #4
Regards TK
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7627 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 6/7/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
Hi Matt, Correct. You would need to change to use the Step/Dir outputs on KFLOP JP5 instead of KFLOP JP7 so JP7 is available to connect to Kanalog. You would then need to configure for OutputChan0 12,13,14 instead of 8,9,10 With KFLOP JP5 disconnected from Kanalog everything on Kanalog will still work except Kanalog JP2 differential inputs. Regards TK
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7628 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/7/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
thanks for the reply, as of now i would like to only try and use the dynomotion cnc. this seems simpler and i would like to try it out for a while.
i got all 3 motors working off the dynomotion screen but backwards. i saw somewhere about reversing this but cant find it now.
the motors have a lot of over shoot in the rapid that was not there in mach. i assume this is a parameter in the Step Response Screen?
would it be better for tuning to have the encoders go to the kanalog instead of the geckos? will the geckos drive blindly like this?
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7629 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/7/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
> You would then need to configure for OutputChan0 12,13,14 instead of 8,9,10
when you say OutputChan0, is that all three axis or is it .....
OutputChan0 = 12
OutputChan1 = 13
OutputChan2 = 14
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7630 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 6/7/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
Hi Matt,
The proceedure for making a C Program to configure and initialize KFLOP is the same for both Mach3 and KMotionCNC. Step#4 here:
http://dynomotion.com/Help/Mach3Plugin/Mach3.htm
For reversing see FAQ here:
http://www.dynomotion.com/faq.html
You are possibly moving too fast. The Motor/Supply/Gecko isn't able to keep up, then overshoots when it finally catches up.
The "Motion Profile | V" parameter on the Step Response Screen controls the max velocity
It
would be much better for tuning if you could plot the encoder positions to see what is happening. But you cannot disconnect the encoders from Gecko. They would need to be connected in parallel (which is difficult from a noise, shielding, termination standpoint).
Regards TK
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7631 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 6/7/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
Hi Matt,
No. Each axis channel can potentially output to two devices. One is defined by OutputChan0 and the 2nd is defined by OutputChan1. In your case of Step Direction mode you only need one output device to be defined (which Step / Dir Generator to use).
So it would be:
Axis Channel 0 - OutputChan0 = 12, OutputChan1 = don't care Axis Channel 1 - OutputChan0 = 13, OutputChan1 = don't care Axis
Channel 2 - OutputChan0 = 14, OutputChan1 = don't care
HTH Regards TK
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7632 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/7/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
great
that's what I thought but so much channel talk in this I get crazy
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7634 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/7/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
so i got all the motors hooked up and running perfect!
i think i got the c code file done right too. basically if you open up the dynomotion program alone and your settings and paremters open up with it 100% then the c code is completed correctly?
where does a guy find a print of all the bits around the kanalog board?
is there any spindle speed stuff like the "FRO" function?
i noticed the screen rapid buttons are just 1 axis at a time? (no xy same time rapids)
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7636 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 6/7/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
Hi Matt, I assume by "dynomotion program" you mean KMotion.exe program? (Dynomotion is the name of our company) But no. The C Program sets the parameters in the KFLOP board not the KMotion.exe program. This Flash Video might help: http://dynomotion.com/Help/FlashHelp/Parameters/index.html The Kanalog Hardware Connectors are described here: http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKanalog/ConnectorsKanalog.htm We recently added a Spindle Control to KMotionCNC in a Test Release. See: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/message/7575 The on-screen buttons can only be pushed one at a time.
Regards TK
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7637 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/8/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
i deleted all the old kmotion stuff and loaded up the new version with the spindle extra and goodies. i like these features!
loading up my motor tuning it again does the servo over shoot and bounce back in the cnc controler screen. the tuning program does not show any of this while tuning the V A and jerk. something in the c code download i assume is not happy and creates this. i got rid of this some how yesterday and the servos behave exactly like the tuning screen. i have no idea why they started behaving good though last time.?
i get this even at 10ipm! just crawling....
i thought maybe something with the axis limits or something.
i know my geckos are tuned 100% and will not touch them as the tuning screen reflects this.
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7638 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/8/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
here is the copied to clip board and loaded c file....
#include "KMotionDef.h"
main()
{
ch0->InputMode=NO_INPUT_MODE;
ch0->OutputMode=STEP_DIR_MODE;
ch0->Vel=35000;
ch0->Accel=250000;
ch0->Jerk=4e+006;
ch0->P=0;
ch0->I=0.01;
ch0->D=0;
ch0->FFAccel=0;
ch0->FFVel=0;
ch0->MaxI=200;
ch0->MaxErr=1e+006;
ch0->MaxOutput=200;
ch0->DeadBandGain=1;
ch0->DeadBandRange=0;
ch0->InputChan0=0;
ch0->InputChan1=0;
ch0->OutputChan0=12;
ch0->OutputChan1=0;
ch0->MasterAxis=-1;
ch0->LimitSwitchOptions=0x0;
ch0->SoftLimitPos=1e+009;
ch0->SoftLimitNeg=-1e+009;
ch0->InputGain0=1;
ch0->InputGain1=1;
ch0->InputOffset0=0;
ch0->InputOffset1=0;
ch0->OutputGain=-1;
ch0->OutputOffset=0;
ch0->SlaveGain=1;
ch0->BacklashMode=BACKLASH_OFF;
ch0->BacklashAmount=0;
ch0->BacklashRate=0;
ch0->invDistPerCycle=1;
ch0->Lead=0;
ch0->MaxFollowingError=1000000000;
ch0->StepperAmplitude=20;
ch0->iir[0].B0=1;
ch0->iir[0].B1=0;
ch0->iir[0].B2=0;
ch0->iir[0].A1=0;
ch0->iir[0].A2=0;
ch0->iir[1].B0=1;
ch0->iir[1].B1=0;
ch0->iir[1].B2=0;
ch0->iir[1].A1=0;
ch0->iir[1].A2=0;
ch0->iir[2].B0=0.000769;
ch0->iir[2].B1=0.001538;
ch0->iir[2].B2=0.000769;
ch0->iir[2].A1=1.92081;
ch0->iir[2].A2=-0.923885;
ch1->InputMode=NO_INPUT_MODE;
ch1->OutputMode=STEP_DIR_MODE;
ch1->Vel=30000;
ch1->Accel=150000;
ch1->Jerk=4e+006;
ch1->P=0;
ch1->I=0.01;
ch1->D=0;
ch1->FFAccel=0;
ch1->FFVel=0;
ch1->MaxI=200;
ch1->MaxErr=1e+006;
ch1->MaxOutput=200;
ch1->DeadBandGain=1;
ch1->DeadBandRange=0;
ch1->InputChan0=0;
ch1->InputChan1=0;
ch1->OutputChan0=13;
ch1->OutputChan1=0;
ch1->MasterAxis=-1;
ch1->LimitSwitchOptions=0x0;
ch1->SoftLimitPos=1e+009;
ch1->SoftLimitNeg=-1e+009;
ch1->InputGain0=1;
ch1->InputGain1=1;
ch1->InputOffset0=0;
ch1->InputOffset1=0;
ch1->OutputGain=-1;
ch1->OutputOffset=0;
ch1->SlaveGain=1;
ch1->BacklashMode=BACKLASH_OFF;
ch1->BacklashAmount=0;
ch1->BacklashRate=0;
ch1->invDistPerCycle=1;
ch1->Lead=0;
ch1->MaxFollowingError=1000000000;
ch1->StepperAmplitude=20;
ch1->iir[0].B0=1;
ch1->iir[0].B1=0;
ch1->iir[0].B2=0;
ch1->iir[0].A1=0;
ch1->iir[0].A2=0;
ch1->iir[1].B0=1;
ch1->iir[1].B1=0;
ch1->iir[1].B2=0;
ch1->iir[1].A1=0;
ch1->iir[1].A2=0;
ch1->iir[2].B0=0.000769;
ch1->iir[2].B1=0.001538;
ch1->iir[2].B2=0.000769;
ch1->iir[2].A1=1.92081;
ch1->iir[2].A2=-0.923885;
ch2->InputMode=NO_INPUT_MODE;
ch2->OutputMode=STEP_DIR_MODE;
ch2->Vel=35000;
ch2->Accel=250000;
ch2->Jerk=4e+006;
ch2->P=0;
ch2->I=0.01;
ch2->D=0;
ch2->FFAccel=0;
ch2->FFVel=0;
ch2->MaxI=200;
ch2->MaxErr=1e+006;
ch2->MaxOutput=200;
ch2->DeadBandGain=1;
ch2->DeadBandRange=0;
ch2->InputChan0=0;
ch2->InputChan1=0;
ch2->OutputChan0=14;
ch2->OutputChan1=0;
ch2->MasterAxis=-1;
ch2->LimitSwitchOptions=0x0;
ch2->SoftLimitPos=1e+009;
ch2->SoftLimitNeg=-1e+009;
ch2->InputGain0=1;
ch2->InputGain1=1;
ch2->InputOffset0=0;
ch2->InputOffset1=0;
ch2->OutputGain=-1;
ch2->OutputOffset=0;
ch2->SlaveGain=1;
ch2->BacklashMode=BACKLASH_OFF;
ch2->BacklashAmount=0;
ch2->BacklashRate=0;
ch2->invDistPerCycle=1;
ch2->Lead=0;
ch2->MaxFollowingError=1000000000;
ch2->StepperAmplitude=20;
ch2->iir[0].B0=1;
ch2->iir[0].B1=0;
ch2->iir[0].B2=0;
ch2->iir[0].A1=0;
ch2->iir[0].A2=0;
ch2->iir[1].B0=1;
ch2->iir[1].B1=0;
ch2->iir[1].B2=0;
ch2->iir[1].A1=0;
ch2->iir[1].A2=0;
ch2->iir[2].B0=0.000769;
ch2->iir[2].B1=0.001538;
ch2->iir[2].B2=0.000769;
ch2->iir[2].A1=1.92081;
ch2->iir[2].A2=-0.923885;
}
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7639 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/8/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
the bounce back does not happen when just using the step buttons though.
kmotion cnc does not appear to like my g code now too so I cant try a dry run to see if it behaves nicely.
|
|
Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 7640 |
From: yeamans115 |
Date: 6/8/2013 |
Subject: Re: smoothstepper to kflop/kanalog conversion |
so I searched over at the zone and found I was missing this....
DefineCoordSystem(0,1,2,-1);
at the end of my code.
runs like it should now.....
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |